From here and from there with Zitlali Morales: What does belonging look like as a daughter of immigrants?
In this episode, Grace Khachaturian sits down with Zitlali Morales, a professor of curriculum and instruction at the University of Illinois Chicago College of Education. Morales reflects on her journey as a daughter of immigrants and shares her experience of growing up bilingual in a predominantly English-speaking environment, the challenges she faced and how her experiences inspired her work supporting multilingual students. She explains the importance of curiosity, participation and creating inclusive spaces. Morales talks about her work at UIC with teachers of inclusive language practices that value students’ cultural and linguistic strengths. She emphasizes how recognizing diverse perspectives can strengthen learning and help build a sense of community.
Key takeaways:
- Inclusive education benefits from curiosity, participation and valuing students’ linguistic and cultural strengths.
- Challenges are often a sign of resilience.
- Recognizing and embracing diverse perspectives strengthens learning and community.
Biography
P. Zitlali (Lali) Morales is a professor of curriculum and instruction in the College of Education and an affiliated faculty member in the Latin American and Latino studies program at UIC. Morales is the oldest of four daughters to immigrant parents from Jalisco, México. She grew up in Illinois and received a bachelor’s degree in cultural anthropology from Stanford University and PhD in education from the University of California, Los Angeles.
Her research focuses on the linguistic practices of bilingual Latinos, the language ideologies of immigrant communities, language education policy and increasing equitable access to dual language bilingual education for Latino and other racialized communities. She works to decenter predominantly English-speaking in teacher preparation via language education and has documented the testimonios of Latino teachers in Chicago with her research team. Morales leads the UIC Dual Language Bilingual Education Research Collective and co-directs the Illinois Spanish Language Arts Standards Implementation Project in partnership with the Illinois State Board of Education. Morales is the co-editor of the book “Transforming Schooling for Second Language Learners: Theoretical Insights, Policies, Pedagogies, and Practices,” published by Information Age Publishing. She currently serves as the UIC coordinator for the bilingual and English as a second language teaching endorsements.
Grace Khachaturian 00:00
Welcome to “This is UIC,” the official podcast of the University of Illinois Chicago. I’m Grace Khachaturian, and with each episode, we delve into the stories that drive us to unpack our most compelling questions. As Chicago’s only public research university, UIC is leading the way to create and inspire a better world. This is UIC.
Today, we’re joined by University of Illinois Chicago Professor Zitlali Morales. Zitlali grew up bilingual as the daughter of immigrants, navigating the feelings of being from here and from there. Her work focuses on creating inclusive classrooms where multilingual students feel a true sense of belonging, drawing from her own journey to help others feel seen and valued. Zitlali, so glad to be speaking with you today.
Zitlali Morales 00:50
Likewise, thanks for inviting me.
Grace Khachaturian 00:53
Yes, absolutely. Today, we are going to dive into the curiosity: From here and from there, what does belonging look like as a daughter of immigrants? And I think this will be such a compelling topic and very relatable for so many people to hear your story. Before we dive into that curiosity, I would love to put your story in context. Tell us a little bit about your why.
Zitlali Morales 01:20
My why is related to my upbringing. I actually started off in a bilingual preschool, and I went to school with other kids that looked and sounded like me. Our teacher spoke Spanish and English, because that’s when I started learning English, and we sang songs in Spanish. And when I went to kindergarten, my parents actually decided to switch me from a public preschool to a Catholic private school, and I still really enjoyed school, so that wasn’t an issue, but I couldn’t speak English very well. And I did learn English, which was great, but I wasn’t able to speak Spanish at school because, you know, no one understood me, or no one asked me about it. And so, my life became very separate, whether it was at home or at school. And so, my why is really about expanding, you know, how we help students feel accepted, so that they can bring their whole selves into schools, and so we can recognize the cultural experiences and the linguistic strengths that they can bring into theclassroom.
Grace Khachaturian 02:42
You’re the perfect person to be working on something like that, because you’ve been there. Talking a little bit about your upbringing, what mental, emotional toll did that have on you, especially as someone, you know, from preschool on, like you were experiencing that?
Zitlali Morales 03:01
I think that I kept my worlds pretty separate. So, for example, at school, I was really quiet, and I didn’t really necessarily bring my full personality into my classroom experience. Whereas at home, I actually have three younger sisters, and so at home, I really was still listening to a lot of Spanish and speaking some Spanish. At some point, my sisters and I joined the choir. So, we sang in Spanish, and my parents were mostly friends with other Mexican immigrants, but it was really separate from myschooling experience.
And so, I kind of sort of theorized that, you know, I could have gone on to really assimilate into more of an English-only identity, had I not started going to Mexico with my parents. So, the first time I went to Mexico, I turned 10 years old that year, and so, when we went to Mexico for the first time, I just met all of these relatives, and they were really welcoming. And so, it was just a real immersion into Spanish, and not just Spanish, but also just another way of looking at the world. You know, we got to see my parents’ hometown, Lagos de Moreno, Jalisco, and interact with my grandparents.
And I think one of the most significant differences and experiences, and what really made me motivated to continue developing my Spanish, was that kids my age, they really were very playful with language. So, like a lot of jokes, a lot of slang, you know, I really picked up some of the interesting ways of saying things that were either more formal or, you know, maybe they were kind of joking. And so, there was was double entendre. You know, people would say one thing, but mean another thing. And so, if you didn’t know what the second meaning was, then you didn’t understand the joke. And just sort of as a curious child and becoming an adolescent, that just became more and more important.
I came back to the U.S. with this newfound interest in maintaining these relationships with both family and friends, as well as eventually a more sort of academic or scholarly interest in the role that language plays in relationships, in conviviality, in, you know, teasing, but also in many ways, strengthening those bonds between people. And it just has been this lasting interest that I’ve had in language,
Grace Khachaturian 05:52
And after walking through, kind of living in these two separate worlds so much of your life, how would you define belonging?
Zitlali Morales 06:05
I would define belonging as being able to participate. I think belonging is finding your place and feeling comfortable and engaging. And so that could look differently, you know, different places. So for example, in the classroom, we can convey that that students are welcome tospeak their languages, touse the knowledge that they have in other languages, to teach a little bit of you know, their languages, their small phrases, to their classmates or and to the teacher, him or herself, and so, there’s a spirit of being able to learn from students. It’s really about helping people feel like their whole selves are welcome.
Grace Khachaturian 06:57
One of the overarching components of this conversation is what it means to be from here and from there. Can you unpack that phrase for us?
Zitlali Morales 07:08
Sure. There’s a common saying in Spanish. It’s ni de aquí ni de allá, which means neither from here nor from there. And there’s a famous scene in the movie “Selena,”where they’re talking about Selena and her siblings are talking with their dad, and they’re just saying how, you know, they’re not Mexican enough for the Mexicans, and in the U.S., they’re not the stereotypical apple pie American.
Clip from the movie “Selena” 1 07:41
“Being Mexican American is tough. Anglos jump all over you if you don’t speak English perfectly. Mexicans jump all over you if you don’t speak Spanish perfectly. We gotta be twice as perfect as anybody else, and we gotta prove to the Mexicans how Mexican we are, and we gotta prove to Americans how American we are. We gottabe more Mexican than the Mexicans and more American than Americans both at the same time. It’s exhausting. Man, nobody knows how tough it is to be a Mexican American.
Zitlali Morales 08:10
They’re talking about how we’re not neither from here, neither from there, and we don’t belong.
Grace Khachaturian 08:16
Building on that, and I know this is something we’ve been talking about this entire time, but what does belonging look like as a daughter of immigrants?
Zitlali Morales 08:26
So, as a daughter of immigrants, sometimes I would see, for example, my dad, he told us the story actually, after 9/11 happened, that he stuck an American flag sticker on his lunch pail because he wanted to make sure that his co-workers knew where his loyalties lay. And while I think that it’s complicated, this sort of sense of belonging as an immigrant or as a child of immigrants, at the same time, I do think it’s important to recognize that we have to sort of create understanding around these complexities. So, I think that those stories are important for seeing some of the challenges that people navigate around, you know, feeling like they need to prove maybe, how American they are, especially depending on how they look or how they speak, and at the same time, I think, it’s important for children learning from each other, right? That there that their differences make them who they are, make them their unique selves.
Grace Khachaturian 09:48
You talked about the role of language in relationships. How can we enhance the role of language and use it more as a bridge than a barrier?
Zitlali Morales 09:59
I think it goes back to curiosity. Sometimes we have sort of a myth that, for example, we need to travel very far to interact with people that speak other languages. And yet, in Chicago, you can walk down the street and overhear people talking in many different languages. So, it’s really, I think, about seeing and being in spaces where you can find those different languages and being curious about learning about other people, rather than holding stereotypes or just holding assumptions without ever actually engaging with people who speak additional languages.
Grace Khachaturian 10:49
What impact do you hope that your work at UIC has on individuals that might be walking a similar path to you?
Zitlali Morales 10:58
I hope that people see the importance of their own contributions. So, I often talk about how I’ve really appreciated and loved working with doctoral students who may have a lot of similarities to my story or may be very different. But have had, you know, their own sort of challenges with not being the typical, you know, PhD student.
Grace Khachaturian 11:30
And what advice would you give to that individual?
Zitlali Morales 11:34
What I hear very often, especially from first-generation students, from students of color, is that they feel like imposters, right? The imposter syndrome. And I think that part of that is because we don’t do enough to welcome students who are, what we might consider, nontraditional students. And so, thinking about the ways that we welcome the diversity of experience into our classrooms, and the expectations that we have, and also welcoming who they are by even asking — sharing personal information and giving the space to students to share about their lives as well. Because I think that sometimes, again, we try to separate the personal and the academic, or the personal and the professional, but in order to really understand each other, people want to know about who their professors are and want to know a little bit more about their classmates. So, I think that that also plays a role in feeling like that they do belong at UIC and in higher education in general. Oftentimes, you know, their challenges are actually signs of resilience. So, it really is about wanting these different perspectives and voices at the table to be able to expand our understanding in ways that we don’t even, we might not even, realize.
Grace Khachaturian 13:14
I’ve always loved the phrase that everyone has a seat at the table. I think it’s so true in life, and metaphorically and literally. With your story, with your upbringing, with the work that you’re currently doing, where would you say you feel most at home?
Zitlali Morales 13:31
I feel most at home where I’ve created strong bonds, when I’m with people that that know me and, you know, appreciate, sort of, what I have to bring — what I bring to the table.
Grace Khachaturian 13:46
That’s awesome. Well, I’m grateful for your willingness to share your own story and dive into belonging, as the daughter of immigrants. We do love to end these interviews on a fun note. So, if you were to pick a song that best represents your story, what song would you pick?
Zitlali Morales 14:03
I would pick “Esta Vida” by Jorge Celedón. (Music clip plays).
Zitlali Morales 14:20
It’s a really happy, upbeat song. I have been called very optimistic by my friends and colleagues. So I definitely, I guess, I’m a half-glass-full type of person. And the songis just really about the simple things in life that are, that bring you pleasure and joy. Coffee in the morning. Sunshine through your window. And so, it’s like we only have one life, and you gotta enjoy it well while you can.
Grace Khachaturian 14:53
I love that. Well, thank you so much for your time here today and unpacking the curiosity and the compelling topic of: From here and from there, what does belonging look like as a daughter of immigrants? We are so grateful for your time today.
Zitlali Morales 15:10
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
Grace Khachaturian 15:13
Of course. Learn more about Zitlali Morales in the show notes at today.uic.edu. Thanks for listening to “This is UIC,” the official podcast of the University of IllinoisChicago, Chicago’s only public research university. Until next time, visit today.uic.edu to uncover how UIC is inspiring a better world.
